Timothy
Men of Steel
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Post by Timothy on Oct 2, 2005 9:56:59 GMT -5
^ I can agree with you, but you also have to look at it from their perspective to understand what the duck they're trying to say; they're saying that it strayed away from the source material, and being that they're (like you said) in their 40's they're probably referring to the 60's series. *Awkward silence* Their definition is the vaunted television series, and seeing as they have no knowledge of Year One, Killing Joke, etc., they have no real understanding of the character's motivations.
^ I know what you mean; the only real chewing out that I did though was towards some punk college kid who had the brilliant idea to 1.) bring his cell-phone, 2.) leave it on, and 3.) Make it incredibly loud with an anoying "Tetris" knock-off ring-tone. He was on the phone for about 30 seconds loudly (ever see "Trigger Happy TV"? Think of that); if he had stayed on 30 seconds more, I would have strangled him, though he's probably the kind of person who could be strangled to death by a cordless phone.
^ OMG...THAT got annoying after awhile; explaining to the general audience that this is a NEW series and to FORGET the previous four movies...In fact, I'm still doing that to this day; why do I even bother explaining it to people who can't wrap the idea around their heads?
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arkhaminmate
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DC's Own Smeagol/ Gollum
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Post by arkhaminmate on Oct 2, 2005 19:04:38 GMT -5
We know. We've explained it several times. But they just don't seem to get it. But, selave . Or however u spell it.
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Post by thekingpun on Oct 3, 2005 22:07:24 GMT -5
I think that stealing Batman away from kids is just as bad as stealing it away from the adult fans. But I'm the person who thinks that the Burton Batman films were darker than Begins. People nowadays can't comprehend a movie that is for all ages. They think that kid movies have to be dumbed down beyond belief, and that adult movies have to be full of swearing, violence and sex sex sex. I think that filmmakers are really missing out on a huge gap between adult and kids movies.
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arkhaminmate
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DC's Own Smeagol/ Gollum
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Post by arkhaminmate on Oct 5, 2005 3:35:49 GMT -5
I don't want to steal it away from kids I just have a thing about kids going to see a Batman or comic movie. Just gets me somereason. In Batman Begins 4 parents walked out with their kids cause the Scarecrow scared the out of em.
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Post by azrael24 on Oct 5, 2005 14:39:59 GMT -5
i agree, but even some kid movies are being dumbed down AND including sex. i was watching some little kids shows and they just flat out say very sexual things, not sure wether or not little kids understand them though!?
oh and i too hate explaining to people that begins is a totally different series from the old ones, but i think thats died down but its probably gonna start again when the movie comes out on DVD
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hush
Heir to Millions
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Post by hush on Oct 12, 2005 4:36:38 GMT -5
I think that stealing Batman away from kids is just as bad as stealing it away from the adult fans. But I don't think the Batman films should cater to kids by being "dumbed down" and made less violent, less intelligent, or less psychological and dark, do you? I believe Batman is a dark and scary character. Some kids can handle that, some can't. The creative talents behind any form of Batman not specifically geared toward kids, like Begins and sequels, should NEVER have to change their vision to suit less mature viewers, IMO. I'm sure most parents know ther kids well enough to know whether they can take scary things. If they can't, it shouldn't be anyone's concern but theirs and their parents/guardians. That's what incarnations like The Batman are for, to cater to kids first, adults second. The films should be for adults/mature kids first, younger kids second or not at all, depending on the circumstances. Begins, and now its sequels, present the core of the Batman character, IMO, and I beleve that to reduce the darkness, maturity level, or intelligence of them would take away from that substantially. People nowadays can't comprehend a movie that is for all ages. They think that kid movies have to be dumbed down beyond belief, and that adult movies have to be full of swearing, violence and sex sex sex. I think that filmmakers are really missing out on a huge gap between adult and kids movies. But I agree with you there, that makes perfect sense, and it happens a TON. But I do think that PG-13 was a good place for Begins. I think lots of kids probably saw and enjoyed it anyway, too. On another note, I honestly haven't had to tell to many people at all about how Begins is unrelated to the first 4 movies and all that stuff you guys are talking about. Guess I got lucky. ;D
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Timothy
Men of Steel
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Post by Timothy on Oct 13, 2005 5:51:07 GMT -5
From BOF: "All the major characters from the first film aside from the villains are back." "Two additions to the cast of 'good guys:' Harvey Dent and Sarah Essen." "[The] Joker will be in this film, although he will be just one of several major villains." "The Joker. I won't spoil things for you but those expecting an exact translation of [the Character] from the comics, in terms of costume, you will be disappointed. However, let may say that this Joker will be the 'The Joker;' the way character is written is very faithful to [how] he is in the comics and I can see why WB is not interested in actors like Crispin Glover or Johnny Depp." "I won't reveal all the villains, but I'll leave a few hints that the avid comic fan should be able to decipher. One will be an ambiguous mob boss with ties to the late Dr. Thomas Wayne. Another will be an industrial heir not unlike Bruce Wayne - in fact it could be said that he is a dark mirror of Bruce. Over the course of the story, he will be forced to present a new 'face.' And then we have a small, almost cameo type [appearence by a] villain who is considered a 'classic rouge' as a British arms dealer. It may sound a bit crowded, but it all fits together, makes sense, and works much like a comic story arc." Sarah Essen may now work for the ATF. "As for the villains plot, the mob boss and the heir get involved with a major arms deal with the 'British Guy,' while Batman and his allies attempt to foil it. [As a result,] they uncover more of the corruption plauging Gotham. Unfortunatly for both sides, nobody knew there was a Joker in the deck who complicates matters." What I think: - Not sure I like the inclusion of Essen. I don't think an average audience would respect Gordon as much as they did in the first one if they do the Gordon-Essen Y1 subplot. - The Joker- change in appearance? I hope it's going to be the black and white Alex Ross look... - "Ambiguous mob boss with ties to the late Dr. Thomas Wayne"- This fits with Falcone, but I doubt it'll be him. The scooper said that none of the villains are coming back, plus how would they explain Falcone being cured and showing outright disrespect toward Dr. Wayne when talking to Bruce ("begged...like a dog") - "Another will be an industrial heir not unlike Bruce Wayne - in fact it could be said that he is a dark mirror of Bruce. Over the course of the story, he will be forced to present a new 'face.'" Black Mask I can't think of anyone else. - "And then we have a small, almost cameo type [appearence by a] villain who is considered a 'classic rouge' as a British arms dealer. " I think this is Penguin.
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Timothy
Men of Steel
He's a Crafty-Sort of Fellow
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Post by Timothy on Oct 13, 2005 5:55:49 GMT -5
I think that with Carmine Falcone gone. That the Penguin will come to take over his empire, & possibly ignite a war with BlackMask. & how the hell do u know some of this? Dark Mirror of Bruce=Thomas Elliot? I know he's new to the bat family, but how old was Bane when they put him into (sorry) Batman & Robin. That definitely plays into the new face theory, the problem is that it will lose the twist and turn origin of Hush. Another idea is Basil Karlo. Perhaps he comes from wealth, gets into acting and is basically the same as Bruce Wayne's socialite facade, then gets turned into Clayface. For the mob boss who has some connection to Thomas Wayne, I would really like Rupert Thorne, I just don't know what connection he has to Wayne. Dr. Crane i exalt/hero you for your thoughts. Black Mask didn't even cross my mind but he would be great to see on film, his mask that is. The joker-BM-bats triangle as well. My first read through i thought of penquin as the mirror (think of how he is on The Batman) but i didn't know who the arms dealer was. Your theory is much better and fills in the gaps left in mine. Thanks, Arkham16. Yeah, I originally thought it was Penguin too, but Black Mask fits much better. He is: - "an industrial heir" to Janus Cosmetics - He seems to be the type to be a "dark mirror of Bruce" - He will supposedly "present a new face" which means that he will change. I don't think it's Thomas Elliot (or Harvey Dent if one wants to consider the "new face") because of the "industrial heir" aspect of the character. There is some speculation that the British arms dealer is King Snake, who is actually a British arms dealer in the comics. He, however, cannot be considered as a "classic rogue" (c'mon, does anybody outside of comic readers actually know who he is?) so I think that it has to be Penguin. I think the whole thing sounds cool, and will be great to see if it's true. I also hope Joker is in an Alex Ross-style black tuxedo. I think Roman Sionis has to be the inustrial heir, as he's the only villain who completely fits that description you listed, the mob boss may be Thorne(I can't think of anyone else) and I agree that the arms dealer will probably be Cobblepot. I hope his role is very small. I love how Joker is sounding - he'll be great. ... Yes! I knew that it would finally happen! What does "ATF" stand for though? I loved the possibility of including Sarah Essen (eventually Gordon) in the movies, and that WB is pushing for several villains who will be inportant to the plot of the film... ^ Considering that they had a hard enough time figuring out that this was a new series, I will agree with you... ^ I actually love the black and white look, because I read what [Alex] Ross' motivation was to change it, and I said to myself, "Self, that actually makes sense". ^ What about Ruport Thorne? He was one of the characters who was supposed to show up for the 1st (1989) Batman movie, but WB kept cutting him out. ^ Oh, it's definetly Black Mask; if I had to place a bet, I'd bet on it being Roman Sionis/ Black Mask. The "dark mirror" could be commenting/ a "reflection" of the two in regards to their masks and their personality types; has anyone here read my fan-screenplay featuring Black Mask? I wrote it knowing that Roman is, essentially, Bruce's equal in terms of wealth, but he always ran into failure (especially with the cosmetics company division... awkward...) while Bruce (seemingly) always won whatever he set his mind to. I'd feel on top of the world if I ever found out that story elements from my fan screenplay made their way to the big screen, but that's just me fantasizing... ;D very interesting. But how does, BlackMask, the Penguin, Clayface, & Tommy Elliote tie in with the Joker? It sounds like toward the end of the series they want to do a hush storyline. very interesting. But how does, BlackMask, the Penguin, Clayface, & Tommy Elliote tie in with the Joker? It sounds like toward the end of the series they want to do a hush storyline. ^ In this situation, the Joker (from what I've gathered) would be a pawn in a larger scheme; he's crazy, and a criminal genius, but not a strategic mastermind. "We all wear masks (metaphorically speaking)" + "in fact it could be said that he is a dark mirror of Bruce. Over the course of the story, he will be forced to present a new 'face.'" = Black Mask. Just like Bruce, Black Mask's mask IS his face (at least that's how they view it), and when Roman discovers that for the first time, Gotham and Batman will need all the help that they can get. Wow it sounds awesome. I can just see it all fitting together. EDIT: I'm not sure if this has been posted yet. But here it goes, its from BOF. Nolan talks and more sequel news Author: Jett Wednesday, October 12, 2005 - 6:37 AM, 9:08 PM CENTRAL TIME: My review of the BATMAN FOREVER SE DVD is now posted and ready to read by CLICKING HERE... Nolan talks again. Check out IGN FILMFORCE...
Remember when I told you all that there could be a release of sequel news around the time the BEGINS DVD hits the shelves? Well, that certainly looks to be the case - although I'm not sure an "official" annoucement is going to happen. But look at all the news that has broken of late and the DVD's release is less than a week away...
My friends at DARK HORIZONS have a sequel update that certainly jives with what BOF has been telling you all. Garth's scooper has Paul Bettany the fave to nab the role of The Joker, while Liev Schreiber is said to d**n near wrapped up the role of Harvey Dent (BOF broke both of those casting stories). Click on the link provided for more...
ABOUT.COM has an exclusive interview with director Chris Nolan. Here's a bit:
So, are you doing BATMAN CONTINUES? "Well, it certainly won’t be called that. That’s the title most commonly thrown at me. Actually, I have been talking to the studio and to David Goyer about directions for a sequel because we’re certainly very excited still about the world we were able to dive into and the characters we were able to put on screen. It’s a pretty interesting bunch of people and an interesting place, so we’re definitely talking about places we would take it."
Two villians, or just The Joker? "I wouldn’t want to talk about any specifics per se. All I can really say is it’s a film we’re talking about doing."
Will WB make the same mistakes with this series that they did with the last one? "Well, to me it’s more about the filmmakers and their collaboration with the studio. I don’t think you can necessarily lay all the blame at the feet of the studio or all the blame at the feet of the filmmakers. With franchise properties, with the idea of sequels, as I see it, the only reason to do a sequel is to do something better than the film you’ve made before. That’s the reason you have to be doing it, with that kind of intention. That’s the only way in which I would enter into the process."
Can Robin be used without dumbing down the thing? "Possibly, but I can’t really talk about specifics."
Can the guy say "I'm doing the sequel" any clearer? And Chris, do you realize what sort of internet bomb you just dropped with that Robin "no comment?" The fanboys will be tripping...
I got three "names" for you. They could be considered spoilers, so scroll over them if you want to read:
*possible spoilers*
Salvatore Maroni. Roman Sionis. Oswald "The Penguin" Cobblepot.
Looks like things are really getting going with the sequel. Should be a fun two or three years... www.batman-on-film.com/batmovienews.html Indeed. & with the Scarecrow still running around.... (trails of in thought) Unless they decide that the Scarecrow got caught before Batman Escalation (thats a possible title) interesting. But i think the Joker should be the main villian instead of the pawn of BM. I just hope they don't treat The Joker like the Scarecrow, & have him as a minor character. But with a guy running around in a clown suit (at the begining) why wouldn't he be noticed? ^ I disagree; with him being the star of the [in hindsight] Burton-fiascos, I would rather have the Joker do his own brilliant "thing" (crimes that are beyond the police solving) and never realize that he's part of a larger game. I was talking with my mom about this (she's a fan as well and loved Batman Begins), and she said that it wouldn't be horrible if the Joker wasn't the main villain because with all of the others grabbing for power it would not be a "team-up" (like the last 3 movies or the 1966 movie) as they would be working against each other for the common goal of defeating Batman. ^ YES! Hopefully, we'll have HIM attack [Harvey] Dent with the acid while Joker's on-trail; maybe Mr. J could hire him to attack Dent? Just a thought...
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Timothy
Men of Steel
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Posts: 8,716
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Post by Timothy on Oct 13, 2005 6:00:22 GMT -5
Well, I don't know about you guys but I felt completely ridiculous at not suspecting Salvatore, but that was mainly because I thought that they were going to go through with the "Joker/ Harvey Dent acid" -thing, which they [WB] may still be doing...
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arkhaminmate
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Post by arkhaminmate on Oct 13, 2005 6:34:40 GMT -5
I think it all sounds interesting but why all the characters. Unless they're trying to lead us in the wrond direction..... & with the way it's going it looks like :joker: will be Lachy Hulme or Paul Bettany. I want to see how they're gonna portray The :penguin: I just hope they make him human (which they probably will) instead of a bird-man thing (although i thought that was interesting). But how's this gonna work with Two-Face? I thought the Joker, Two-Face, Acid thing was awesome. But it would make it more complicated if they added to much. Unless they want to make it much longer, it wouldn't sit worng with me. But i reely want to see what looks like. OOOH! A thought just occured. In an interview with Christian Bale, he said it took more from the graphic novels instead of the comics. I think the Black Mask, Salvatore, Joker,The Penguin, (& possibly Scarecrow) could be told much like The Long Halloween, but since Two-Face (most likely) wont appear until #3 it could be The Long Halloween, & possibly Dark Victory (if not just esq. of one or more of them) in two movies. I reely want to see who the Joker's gonna be. It sounds to me that since Carmine Falcone is gone, that both the Penguin & Black Mask come in & try to take over the empire, &start a war.
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